Precision instrument and tools.

[timber715]

Have been talking to several members about dial indicator gauges, Owyn actually suggested we star a thread regarding one... here it is... post your precision tools here...
I will start with my digital scale which I use for measuring materials for mixing.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_0262-1.jpg

[timber715]

precision is what I live for... from my engineering squares...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1655.jpg
to Owyn's dial indicator gauge
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1186.jpg
Bosch's laser level...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/X0528.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/X0529.jpg

[guad]

Are those the squares mentioned before (Soba?) Do they come with an accuracy spec?

What is the model number of the Bosch laser? It does not look like any of the models on Bosch website (local or US).

[jonathanscruz68]

puro high tech gamit ni sir timber,i only got the 4" engineering square(soba),a 12" & 16" stainless ruler,that's all.

[elexcis]

Hi Timber,

where did you bought ur precision weighting scale? I'm interested for my resin and catalyst mixing. Thanks.

[timber715]

Hi Timber,

where did you bought ur precision weighting scale? I'm interested for my resin and catalyst mixing. Thanks.
sa binondo po, meron dun...

[JayL]

Dug out some pics for his thread. I love precision work too.

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1070.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1306.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1316.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1650.jpg

[JayL]

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP2208.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP2220.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/1-13.jpg


http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/2-12.jpg

[JayL]

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/3-10.jpg



http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1526.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP1527.jpg

[JayL]

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/1-14.jpg

In-lb and ft-lb torque wrenches

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/3-11.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/2-13.jpg

[guad]

Strictly speaking, some of these tools like squares and reference lasers are really accuracy tools not precision tools, as they have no precision (number of significant digits) to speak of.

We seem to be getting flooded with devices that have high precision (due to having a digital display) but unspecified or suspect accuracy. Other day I saw a no-name digital bathroom scale in appliance store. Had impressive precision (0.1 kg) but unknown accuracy. The salespeople could not even get it to work.

This laser tool has both an accuracy spec and a precision:
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7776/img3778t.jpg

[JayL]

Is this a good Metric Dial Indicator?

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-2046S-0-01mm-Indicator-0-100/dp/B001C15XL2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297870334&sr=8-2

tks

[owyn]

Mitu's jp site is much better than the .com I had it bookmarked in a "stores and catalog" folder.

For the dial indicators (some are shockproof, jeweled, etc., some are not.)
http://www.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/products/dialgauge/Indicator_1.pdf

For the bases
http://www.mitutoyo.co.jp/eng/products/dialgauge/Indicator_6.pdf
The difference between the 7010-s10 and the 7011-s10 is the "fine adjustment" which is a very big deal.

[JayL]

Owyn,

Thanks a lot for the link.

Would you be so kind enough to educate me a bit more on your real world experiences using bases. Which one did you get and for how much?

This one below sure looks expensive. Mitutoyo but Made in PRC.

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-7010S-Magnetic-Stems-Switch/dp/B001OBX11E/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1297873954&sr=8-2

[owyn]

^Yeah, that sure is expensive for what it is. Two rods and two clamps. For my uses (which is ocassional) and my pocket, i'm fine with the generic taiwanese base version.

Say, let's use a magbase+indicator for checking BS body deflection ala matthias wandel http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LyyPHxPgGHg#t=70s

http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss1/owyn_band_so_long/TPC/Image0699.jpg
I bet it took him 3-5 minutes of fiddling to align the zero at 12:00 position since his base is like mine or the linked mitu that has no fine adjust. (But then indicators are made so you can turn the bezel and align the zero at any X o'clock position. And with two markers to mark any arbitrary tolerance you've set for yourself when reading measurements.)

Let's stand on top of the bandsaw body. (God i don't want the BS rehab to be a saga, and i feel bad for having it take so long. Will remove paint on some parts tomorrow!)
http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss1/owyn_band_so_long/TPC/Image0700.jpg

Only got a phone cam atm, if i had fine adjust i could have aligned the zero, at say, 6 oclock or 12ppm...
http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss1/owyn_band_so_long/TPC/Image0706.jpg
The first black marker is where the zero is, and the other black marker is the maximum deflection. .01mm graduations, the reading is .20mm or "8 thou" (.008") in north american speak.

[JayL]

Thanks for the post bro. I'm sure other members will appreciate this and the usefulness of the dial indicator when precision is required.

What can the fine adjustment base achieve compared to the non adjustable ones.

[JayL]

I'm slowly moving all shop measurement requirements / needs to Metric and hopefully standardize on this. Thus I sold all my Standard / English Calipers and Dial Indicator.

I got this metric Mitutoyo to replace my English Snap On kit. Compared to the Snap On this Mitutoyo looks real cheesey. Too bad the SO was not metric or I would have kept it.

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/Pinoy%20Handyman/1-12.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/Pinoy%20Handyman/2-11.jpg

0.01mm resolution / 10mm range

This is the model.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001C15XL2/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

@Owyn

I checked the Mitutoyo base. Made in Brazil. The quality looks very good but expensive. However it does not have fine adjustments. I'm holding purchase for a Dial Indicator base in order to see more options before getting one.

Do you have a pic or link to a base with fine adjustments?

Thanks

[owyn]

http://longislandindicator.com/Resources/bn1a1.jpeg
Took the pic from here: http://longislandindicator.com/p28.html which incidentally gives praises to the brazilian mitu. The fine adjust is the middle spring (like those found in compass/dividers) that has a fine threaded knob.

===
Did it come with extra tips? (They unscrew so you can use button shaped, pointy, convex ones or whatever. Too bad the teclock didn't have extra.) Looks like it didn't come with markers on the circumference... that is handy.

I think that'll be a good shop user. With the price, it's something you wouldn't cry too much on if gets abused. (I baby my indicator tho! =). )

[JayL]

The Mitu came with the markers etc.. and are still on the small plastic bag. Pointers are optional which I doubt are available.

What's good about having the fine adjustment on the base?

The Taiwanese base cost around 1.2K. The Mitu around 5.2K. Man that's really expensive for a base.

Can you please post a pic of your base. I don't think it's wise to spend 5.2K on the base for what use I intend for the Dial Indicator. However I will need something like the one below aside from a magnetic base. I'll probably modify a vise grip for this purpose. I have an old Alpine Goose Neck holder that might just work with such a mod.


http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/Pinoy%20Handyman/CEN3D103.jpg

[owyn]

The fine adjust would let you adjust the needle to any o'clock position- just thought that would be nice when you're under the car, looking at the indicator at an awkward angle. But you're right- i can live w/o it, I just align the bezel to wherever the zero settles. The fine adjust mechanism prolly reduces the rigidity of the arm also.

(FWIW, when i put the weight of my palm on the last rod, the readings move by .03mm indicating some flex in the magnetic base assembly- but i don't know if that's asking too much.)

Too bad there's no "teclock" middleground for bases- not as pricey as mitu's but better than chinese-HF-grizzly. Base i got is prolly grizzly quality. Chrome(?) plating isn't the smoothest, the magnetic base can lift this 15X15" cast iron base but will drop it when jerked.
http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/ss1/owyn_band_so_long/TPC/Image0716-1.jpg

[JayL]

That's the same one I saw for 1.2K. You got it a bit cheaper.

Here I installed the contents of the small plastic bag. The pointer accessories you mentioned could be quite useful. I might search for these after I get hold of the bases.

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/Pinoy%20Handyman/c-1.jpg

[JayL]

@Owyn

What do you think about this Mitu base. I'm planning to bid on this one but am not just so sure about the indicator mounting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200577457553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT


Here's a new one too. Around $25 less than the amazon price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-MITUTOYO-7010S-MAGNETIC-STAND-3-8-6mm-8mm-STEMS-/120686009176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c19725b58

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-7010S-Magnetic-Stems-Switch/dp/B001OBX11E/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1298351133&sr=8-13

Thanks

[owyn]

@Owyn

What do you think about this Mitu base. I'm planning to bid on this one but am not just so sure about the indicator mounting.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200577457553&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Thanks

I'm not sure but it looks incomplete. There's no way to mount the usual lugged back indicator to it.

But i guess that's easily solved by getting a bolt (and two nuts) that matches the hole size in the last arm of the base. Fastening a 2" bolt to the lug, you can use the unthreaded portion as the "male" to mount it to the hole of the base- if the hex cap/allen head's removed beforehand...

[JayL]

Maybe it will hold the indicator by the stem ?

Any way I sent the seller a question asking if any parts are missing.

tks

BTW the used Snap On DI auction same model as mine ended with a $99.35 price, shipped. Looks like I'm still ahead at the price I let mine go.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=220739108320&si=yLlampK%252B5%252B%252F6CcYKyQTbXH7bFhE%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

[owyn]

^You're totally right sir JayL.

Like this huh? looks good then =).

http://www.noga.com/categoryPics/afat.jpg

[JayL]

@Owyn

I won the bidding on the Mit stand. $37.79 shipped to my address in Illinois.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=200577457553&si=yLlampK%252B5%252B%252F6CcYKyQTbXH7bFhE%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

I sent the seller an email too about the lug back connection and here's his reply whatever that means.

"I do have a stem and sleeve to mount a lug back indicator on it. That will be sent along."

Let's see when it comes if it turns out to be a good deal. At 1,700 pesos it's still better than the price of a brand new one for around 5,400 pesos.

There's another one on auction which I was planning to bid on if I did not win the above. It's this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270709971611&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[JayL]

@Owyn

I won these at Ebay today.

Mit 16-127 Vernier Caliper

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320660698840&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Mit 102-218 25-50mm Micrometers

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=220743205954&si=yLlampK%252B5%252B%252F6CcYKyQTbXH7bFhE%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT

Do you know where I can buy a 25mm standard locally? Looks like the calibration standards are missing and not included.

tks

[owyn]

^ Sorry i don't know. I go to the same places as you guys, Yale, LYS, Hans, ( i don't frequent Panda that much...) Am aware "Iris commercial" sells the mitu stuff in T. Alonzo. At the philconstruct, the taiwanese booth where i got the base had standards, gauge blocks, etc...

I know this is wrong, but those momax tool bits should be pretty darn close... or dormer drill bits heh.

=====
oh wait...
Should you be interested, companies like http://www.apac-ats.com/ offer calibration services. When i OJT'ed during college in a semicon, everything was routinely calibrated by a company just like it. I believe if a city has a semicon factory or industrial parks, a company or two that sells measuring instruments+calibration services won't be far...

(Haven't tried this lead so far tho sir, for now it doesn't matter if my dmm reads .02V DC off from true, or if my inidicator's off by .01mm at maximum travel...)

[JayL]

I do calibrate my 0-25mm Mitu Mic myself and it's not really difficult to do as the manual is very precise. For the 25mm-50mm I will need a gauge block. I'll check out the info you gave and hope I can find one. If not I'll just go to the machine shop and calibrate it there. It would have been better if I had one though so I can check it regularly.

I'm actually putting up a set of mics for engine overhaul use so these have to be up to factory calibration specs.

[JayL]

I feel that even the quality of Japanese Made Mitutoyo is sliding a bit. Plastic parts ( lock and ratchet handle ) compared to the older ones which is all metal.

Mit 103-137 / 0-25mm Micrometer with 0.01mm resolution

http://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-103-137-Outside-Micrometer-Ratchet/dp/B0006J421I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=industrial&qid=1299757173&sr=8-1

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP2586.jpg

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP2587-1.jpg

If you're in the market for a 0-25mm Micrometer then hurry up. LYS hardware has one last unit on sale and it's a NOS Starrett for only 1.5K ( no manual ).

If I did not want to standardize all my precision measurement tools to Mitutoyo then I would have grabbed it myself.

[owyn]

^Hopefully they spent the money on the most important parts. The amazon page says it has carbide faces.

A micrometer's not on my longterm hitlist... what's the starret at LYS anyway, is it metric?

(Went there last week and sadly the paramo bench vise is gone. If one reads the Scott Landis WB book, there's a tidbit there about the connection of record and paramo.)

[JayL]

^Hopefully they spent the money on the most important parts. The amazon page says it has carbide faces.

A micrometer's not on my longterm hitlist... what's the starret at LYS anyway, is it metric?

(Went there last week and sadly the paramo bench vise is gone. If one reads the Scott Landis WB book, there's a tidbit there about the connection of record and paramo.)

Yes the Starret is a metric 0-25mm. 1.5K is an excellent price even without a manual. I believe the adjustment wrench is included which is more important.

I did scout Recto (for fun) looking for some Wilton. What I hit was a 4 1/2" Wilton vise. Same shape as yours but it was really very big. Used and guy wants 18K but I did not haggle knowing I'm not buying.

[owyn]

I still want another wilton ^_^. A cute one that can tilt and be the right size for soldering, light work. Am not expecting one will turn up anytime soon though...
http://i767.photobucket.com/albums/xx312/oregoncity/vise%20w%20swivel/CIMG0814.jpg

Turns out used bullet vises can dip below 200$ on ebay... although the one above sold for 300$ geez. ( http://cgi.ebay.com/Wilton-Vise-vintage-2-baby-bullet-w-PowRarm-Restored-/130492812765?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item1e61fa4ddd )

18K's too much, (maybe kung pupunta kang recto naka pang bahay lang o luma yung tshirt na suot? hehe ) Considering you can buy 3 record vises for it... how bout hunting for the record's own 60K PSI vise- the record "75".

[JayL]

That Wilton you posted really looks in Very Mint condition. Never saw one like that before. Must be a collectible item.

The Wilton I saw looks to be in good shape but am not really sure. Till now I haven't studied or looked at these Wiltons in depth to see subtle details important when buying them. It was huge and heavy and in my eyes looks indestructible. I'm sure the shop will sell it for a lot less than the asking price since it is Used Condition.

Please let me know if you chance on a ductile Record in the market w/ a good price.

Cheers

[owyn]

Naku, nagkakahalo halo na naman, dapat sa clamps and vises thread to =).

Yeah, to tease you, i feel satisfaction everytime the jaw moves smoothly just by the weight of the tommy bar handle (after reassembly with grease added.) And the lack of sideplay. I keep touching the nicholsons in malls and even some records and it lacks that feeling - the feeling that it's some brute, huge yet precise micrometer. But it's a different class- the bullet wilton's a machinist's bench vise, not a mechanic's bench vise. Me want to encounter the record 75 for some apples to apples comparison.

Got too caught up in strength using cheater bars and sledge hammers. But in reality, the issue is marring workpieces, (dented a few stainless steel drawer pulls i was fastening.) In terms of gripping power, vise grips and c clamps are puny, and am still not used to tightening itwith moderation.

Not too happy with the swivel base, it's not a full 360 degrees like the the later ones are and the lock is MUCH more positive. And the price wasn't a bargain for me either.

Here's a catalog of theirs with the improved bases http://www.vintagemachinery.org/pubs/detail.aspx?id=3866

[JayL]

Thanks. I will try to ID the Wilton vise I saw in Recto when I pass there again.

Based on the pdf file you sent looks like its a Wilton Combination Pipe and Bench vise Model C-1 Item no. 10225. 4 1/2" size. The Swivel locks are missing and they have substituted nuts or bolts for it. Probably those can still be ordered from Wilton.

[JayL]

Can't afford new Mitutoyo tools let alone justify it. I went to Ebay and won these at a fraction of the cost of new ones.

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/1-23.jpg

300mm Vernier Caliper w/ fine adjustment

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/2-22.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003MUOE48/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

25-50mm Micrometers

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/3-16.jpg

Dial indicator stand w/ fine adjustment

http://i514.photobucket.com/albums/t347/jzltraco/IMGP3526.jpg