Building a Phil Thein Baffle

[timber715]

I will be using a small (approx 20liter container) detergent container as my baffle/separator.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1109.jpg
after measuring the openning of the container, I lay-out it out on a piece of 1/2" ply...
[http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1105.jpg
I later laid out the recess for the dust to spin into...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1106.jpg
I then transfered the design to a smaller scrap (sayang din yung malaki kasi) and divided into 3 parts. 120 degrees of material will be left of the original diameter.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1107.jpg

[timber715]

then on the scrollsaw I cut the piece, accuracy is not vital, but better to be if possible. it makes for good practice. checked the fit (the container is full of shavings which makes my work easier) on the container...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1110.jpg
then I'm off to round-over the sides that will spit the dust out.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1111.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1112.jpg
to make it more durable and slick, I applied sanding sealer...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1113.jpg

[timber715]

I will need to buy the plumbing hardware for this, so for now... rest lang muna...

[beebeenator]

pag susubaybayan ko ito :)

I think i can grab some old chlorine containers from my old man

[timber715]

pag susubaybayan ko ito :)

I think i can grab some old chlorine containers from my old man
I used one before, the difficulty there Ben is the curve of the container from top going down. the top being small in diameter than the body. it will pose issues unless you can make the baffle fit the top and seal the portion that controls the baffle. best if you can find a container (preferably metal drum) with straight sides. plastic tends to collapse with vacuum...

[timber715]

finding some time and materials, I cut the top pieces...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1114.jpg
rounding them over for a better seal...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1116.jpg
the cover seals very well during test fit...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1115.jpg
drilling to locate both centers and screwing them before gluing...

[timber715]

I always say, find something that makes you feel good in what you do however small... gluing process...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1117.jpg
and shooting with brads...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1118.jpg
then the lid support gets glued and shot with brads as well....
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1119.jpg
then clamped to help dry the glue in the proper place better.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1120.jpg

[timber715]

then it gets a thick coat of sanding sealer...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1121.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1123.jpg
still no plumbing parts yet....

[bbn]

Uy dust collector pala ito! I spent a good hour yesterday vacuuming the dust out of my workshop. To be honest though I'm worried about the electricity.

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm

Looks simple enough.

[timber715]

yes, I do use a broom and dust pan, but when I run powertools that spew dust, I must use the shopvac. it is bec of my space limitations that makes it a necessity...

I did cut the holes for the hardware to get into...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1124.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1125.jpg
late this afternoon I was able to secure all the nec materials...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1126.jpg
assembly time...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1128.jpg

[timber715]

rounded over the holes to make the hardware fit better.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1127.jpg
place liquid nails to act as a sealant...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1133.jpg
installed the pipes...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1129.jpg
making sure everything is in its proper place...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1130.jpg

[timber715]

had to epoxy the connection since I am without a welding machine...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1132.jpg
waiting to dry... then will give it a whirl...it should be working and in use by tomorrow...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1131.jpg

[timber715]

well, I used a 5 minute epoxy... here it is.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1134.jpg
first run went perfect...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1135.jpg
seal is VERY secure and airtight, clamps ...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1138.jpg
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1137.jpg

[timber715]

Now, if only I can have this running I can dedicate it to the ts... I would probably visit Golden's office soon...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1140.jpg
there are just days when I only use one tool brand...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1141.jpg

[bbn]

That was quick!

If may suggest, adding a weather strip inside the groove that mates to the lip of the the can will improve the vacuum. Also put something heavy on top, or maybe some rubber straps, to make the lip fit snugly into the weather strip.

In this picture from Phil's site:

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/graphics/cypro2.jpg

His entry nozzle has the outer part of its circumference cut off. I suspect this has a good effect.

How much debris transferred to the shopvac?

[timber715]

That was quick!

If may suggest, adding a weather strip inside the groove that mates to the lip of the the can will improve the vacuum. Also put something heavy on top, or maybe some rubber straps, to make the lip fit snugly into the weather strip.

In this picture from Phil's site:

http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/graphics/cypro2.jpg

His entry nozzle has the outer part of its circumference cut off. I suspect this has a good effect.

How much debris transferred to the shopvac?
no need for a weatherstrip, it is air tight, blew air in and bubble tested. as for the transfer, the filter I am using is bag type, cant confirm how much yet, will try tomorrow. my first baffle could separate approx 98++%... the filter stays very clean...

[bbn]

Joints do not necessarily seal the same in different pressure directions. The problem with vacuums is that it more difficult to find leaks since you'd have to be inside the vacuum chamber to see the bubbles. The application seems forgiving so I guess it is ok. I'll definitely build one.

Does the container really have to have inclined sides? How about straight sides? Or maybe a plastic drum with concave sides but with some kind of vertical baffle to have inclined sides of sorts?

[timber715]

the ideal container is metal with straight sides, it is easier to build the baffle that way. a concave container negates the baffle effectiveness if you cannot make the baffle touch the large side to the container wall. inclined sides are easy to adjust and opens better since the top would have more room...

[timber715]

the very first PT baffle I made was a plastic container for pool chemicals, it does tend to collapse when you clog the hose... btw, it still works and now belongs to Jay....

[bbn]

Thanks timber. Those metal cans they pack lard in come to mind. Since this is not your first, I'll take your word for it. Hmmm ... I wonder could the space under a TS have a PT baffle built-in?

[timber715]

actually the mod I see for it is another curved pipe on top so the hoses can pass sideways but enter straight. that way you can mount the shopvac on top with a jig or hide the first stage(PT baffle) filter under the table...

[JayL]

the very first PT baffle I made was a plastic container for pool chemicals, it does tend to collapse when you clog the hose... btw, it still works and now belongs to Jay....

It works so effectively that I never thought to upgrade it with a metal can.

[timber715]

the reason why a plastic can isn't ideal is bec., when the hose clogs from a big piece of paper or plastic or anything that can seal the hose, the container will collapse. even this short thick container I use now still does collapse (which also means it seals well).
just to try it out... I made dust. started by cleaning the shopvac container... there is light stained dust at the bottom...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1149.jpg
ran the shopvac with the PT baffle(which I emptied too) in line, and after several minutes... it has about 8 cups of dust in it.
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1151.jpg
I am not sure if this is 98% but it seems like 99.7% or better...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1150.jpg

[JayL]

The shop vac ( w/ the PT baffle ) I have collect dust I say within that percentage too. The main cleanup job is more on blowing compressed air on the vac filter to clean it of heavy fine dust buildup which tend to decrease suction efficiency.

[timber715]

shopvac has a bag option Jay, it is what I use now and is better with a 10 or 5 micron filter capability iirc, saves the filter way much better and saves the motor by 10 folds...

[JayL]

What's a bag option?

tks

[beebeenator]

brain dead question. what happens if i just yank out the filter in my shopvac? it will still suck right?

[timber715]

yes Ben, it will but whatever dust that gets into the vacuum has a tendency to get to the motor too...
Jay,
here is the bag option...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1156.jpg
installed...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1154.jpg
then I chose a simple cloth filter that shopvac also carries... make the motor work less...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1155.jpg

[JayL]

I'll check this out when I visit Binondo again. I hope there's one that will fit a Hangup Pro model.

Have you noticed a real performance improvement on the PT baffle when you switched to a metal can?

Thanks

[timber715]

the improvement isn't much on efficiency. its just that I tend to get big pieces clog the hose often that collapses the plastic container. even this short thick one I am using collapses...

[ply user]

making sure everything is in its proper place...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/IMG_1130.jpg

siguro sir po timber ang dust intake port hindi masyado nasa gilid ng drum kasi mababara nito ang circulation ng hangin na may dust at wood particles habang umiikot.

nag reresearch po ako para gumawa and i noticed po ang difference ng port location mo in comparison sa phil thien picture.

my two cents po.

[timber715]

would appreciate a link regarding what you mean, I have seen several designs by Phil himself and that is the configuration he made, or I might be wrong... this is my portable one anyway and I can do the mod if I have to... so far it works fine, will wait for your pics or link...

[timber715]

In his thread (PT) I found this picture again with a note...
http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab219/timber3715/PhilThein.png
and seeing that, my mistake could be that my elbow is too long that it doesn't hug the lid. and with that in mind, it seems you really want to block the circulation for dust to direct downward...

[ply user]

would appreciate a link regarding what you mean, I have seen several designs by Phil himself and that is the configuration he made, or I might be wrong... this is my portable one anyway and I can do the mod if I have to... so far it works fine, will wait for your pics or link...

Sir Timber, I will not like it if I say you are wrong. We are referring to the same Thien site. I was just comparing the picture you posted in relation to the pics at the Thien site. I might have seen it differently than you did but this is how I see it:

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/rodelnaz/Thien%20DC/cypro2.jpg
And yes, the distance of the port from the top cover is quite wide in your design.


http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/rodelnaz/Thien%20DC/cypro3.jpg

[ply user]

In his thread (PT) I found this picture again with a note...

and seeing that, my mistake could be that my elbow is too long that it doesn't hug the lid. and with that in mind, it seems you really want to block the circulation for dust to direct downward...


Sir Timber, sorry if I seem to offend you in your design.But who am I to go against somebody who have already made one. I think I was just trying to illicit additional input from those who actually built a thien dc like you. This discussion might prove to be a source of ideas for future mods to further polish our own projects and the way we understand and use the Thien design . I think you just made one comment on your project (the length of the elbow) that I consider as a great input in my upcoming Thien project.

I already have the drum to use for it. A 45 kg Chlorine drum.

http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/rodelnaz/Thien%20DC/Photo0124-1.jpg

[ply user]

sorry for the over sized picture post. please just delete it sir.

[timber715]

Sir Timber, sorry if I seem to offend you in your design
first, it wasn't my design, next there are lots of technicalities in the build that even people in the US who are guided by Phil himself gets confused.
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/rodelnaz/Thien%20DC/cypro2.jpg
so that was the distance you eant, though it was otherwise. well, my first baffle followed that configuration and the current one is the one you saw me make works fine. it turns out that it doesn't affect the performance much but the speed of air circulation on the sides with the one I made is faster. and makes separation much better.

[violaine]

i think what is important eh kung meron napupunta sa 1st container i.e. the Phil Thein baffle...eh meron naman kaya tama na siguro yun.

what i would want to build is a baffle na made of clear acrylic for us to see the cyclonic action...

pag opaque kasi hindi natin makita kung we need to reposition the intake and outtake ports.

[ply user]

first, it wasn't my design, next there are lots of technicalities in the build that even people in the US who are guided by Phil himself gets confused.
http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z336/rodelnaz/Thien%20DC/cypro2.jpg
so that was the distance you eant, though it was otherwise. well, my first baffle followed that configuration and the current one is the one you saw me make works fine. it turns out that it doesn't affect the performance much but the speed of air circulation on the sides with the one I made is faster. and makes separation much better.

sir timber, i get your point and i agree with the comment of sir violaine as long as it works to our satisfaction its fine. tanong ko lang po, yung unang ginawa nyo perehas po ba ang size ng port at ang distance between the baffle and cover sa latest mong ginawa? kung hindi, how do they differ po in performance.

TIA

[ryobi]

up ko lang itong tread

i made may phil thein baffle here is my wip
P 350.00 pesos
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00784.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00785.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00786.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00787.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00788.jpg

here is intake 2 pcs. 2inc.elbow neltex brand
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00789.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00790.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00791.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00792.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00793.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00794.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00795.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00813.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00814.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00796.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00797.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00798.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00799.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00801.jpg

guess
http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00805.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00806.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00807.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00808.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00809.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00810.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00818.jpg

takep ng rice cooker hehehe

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00819.jpg

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00821.jpg

[ryobi]

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00822.jpg


http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00823.jpg


http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00824.jpg

hehehe ayos ba

http://i873.photobucket.com/albums/ab296/rtirona/Phil%20Thein%20Baffle/DSC00825.jpg

[ryobi]

Youtube in action here is the link


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7mLzs5227g


kayo na ang humusga hehehehe

[joey81]

Nice, ryobi-wan kenobi!

Reuse and recycle. Aylabet!

How does the rice cooker cover perform in separating the dust? Hindi ba medyo maliit?

[moji]

Does it separate the dust from the vac?

[Armand]

eh hindi naman tinesting ng actual ang daya...:confused:


naunahan moko ryobi nasa toplist ko na ito as my next shopmate...ready na rin yung balde ko..;)

[bigfoot2]

I'm moving this up on my list also, especially with the dust I'm generating lately.

[joey81]

Sino ang may extrang takip ng rice cooker? Trade ko sa balde. :D

[ricky]

Ang galing mo sir ryobi, Hindi ka Lang magkakahoy, tubero ka na din pala. Joke. Since see thru yung intake mo madali makikita Kung may makakalusot na dust papunta sa vacuum cleaner. Akala ko sasampolan mo yung lupa hehe.
Posted via PHM Mobile

[ryobi]

here is my ans to all your question :yoda1::vader:

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDWI-5y2Zo


:thanks: for viewing hehehe see you guys

gawa na aba :hammer:

[rosy]

Sino ang may extrang takip ng rice cooker? Trade ko sa balde. :D


Ako bro joey81, may extrang cover ng rice cooker, he he he he , AM I reading it right, is it blade or balde, if its a blade, what kind of blade, TS blade or Gillette shaving blades ? ha ha ha ha ha
:D :D :D

[fortnapz]

here is my ans to all your question :yoda1::vader:

watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwDWI-5y2Zo


:thanks: for viewing hehehe see you guys

gawa na aba :hammer:


bro, mas maganda kung ipakita mong filter ng Vac mo after vacuuming the dust. Konti lang ba ang dust na dumiretso sa VC?

[JayL]

Don't you guys think this should be a sticky?

A cheap way to at least control some dust in the wood shop.

The vac filter still gets dirty in the long run but a blow of compressed air will clean it in no time. I doubt that the filter will survive long without the Phil Thein baffle ... if it does it will clog easily so more time spent on cleanup.